Saturday, May 8, 2010

My Missionary Boys

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
  --  Galileo Galilei

This is probably my most favorite quote of all time. I admire Galileo very much. Brilliant and progressive- yet devout, but ostracized and condemned by the church for challenging the conventional wisdoms of his time. Nobody likes a free thinker.

I know I've said this many times, but I appreciate that my mother raised me to find my own religious truths, to think for myself, and not to blindly follow whatever doctrine was put before me. I love that she taught me to investigate, keep an open mind, and make my own deductions. I remember one church teaching that to ask "Why?" was to question God, and therefore a sin. What a load of crap! 

I love that we watched shows like 'Hidden Mysteries of the Bible'. That show was so cool! I love that they looked at things from so many different perspectives. They had interviews with priests, rabbis, and a vast collection of theologians from different religions around the world. I was fascinated by how they could agree or disagree on ideas that all came from the same place.

For the majority of my adult life I have had Pioneers from the Jehovah's Witness church who've come on weekly visits to my home. I am so happy to finally not have roommates that will balk at this idea. I understand that a lot of people are irritated by proselytizers, but I admire anyone who upholds the tenants of their faith and I like the personal interaction and learning about a religion from actual members and not solely from a book. In truth, I wish members of other religions would come knock on my door. I'd love to sit and talk about Buddhism, Judaism, or the Muslim faith.

Sadly, my experience has usually been that J.W.'s are more willing than Mormons, to come in and have a discussion after hearing my "I'm not a Christian and don't see that changing, but I'd love to learn about your religion" speech. Usually Mormons say have a nice day, and leave. I have recently acquired two very nice missionary boys who seem to be just as eager to learn about me as I am to learn about them. Most of my friends think I'm weird, but I'm so excited by this.

 On their first visit, they were surprised to see that I had a Book of Mormon wedged between my Episcopal Book of Common Prayers and my J.W. New World Translation of the Bible. "Have you read it?" they asked eagerly. "Ummm, I've skimmed it." I didn't have the heart to tell them that I thought what I had read was bogus. I do try to be as respectful as possible. When they're here, I don't go stand at the back door and smoke... but I finally had to tell them that I like my coffee and am no longer going to let it go cold when they knock on my door. I did not know that it isn't the caffeine they have a problem with, but the tannin. Interesting.

On their second visit, they were shocked that not only had I read the little booklet they'd left me, but highlighted and cross-referenced with several different versions of the Bible. They'd apparently never had anyone do that. Hmmm? They'd also never had anyone point out the glaring contradiction of texts in that booklet. (OK, YES.... one of my favorite things EVER is to play stump the door knockers....if you're going to knock on my door to teach me about God, you better know your stuff!!)

When they left that day, they gave me another booklet about Christ being sinless and perfect and the Atonement. Being that I'm not a Christian, but an omnist, I believe that Jesus was a prophet like Moses, Aaron, Buddha, and Mohammad, not the Divine, incarnate Son of God- I set forth to find evidence that Jesus was a man, like any other, and had sinned. ..... That wasn't so easy. I even went so far as to search the internet for other skeptics and investigated their "proof". To be honest, I found it to be reaching and flimsy. 
1) Jesus was often disrespectful and rude to his mother when he spoke to her by addressing her as "Woman.." "Woman, what does your concern have to do with me?..." John 2:4. Flimsy.... you have to put it into context of the times. Perhaps that it just how people spoke back then. It's not like he called her a stupid bitch or something.
2) Supposedly Jesus conspired to steal a horse...
Luke 19:29-35

  When he drew near to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount that is called Olivet, he sent two of the disciples, 30 saying, “Go into the village in front of you, where on entering you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever yet sat. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you untying it?’ you shall say this: ‘The Lord has need of it.’” 32 So those who were sent went away and found it just as he had told them. 33 And as they were untying the colt, its owners said to them, “Why are you untying the colt?” 34 And they said, “The Lord has need of it.” 35 And they brought it to Jesus, and throwing their cloaks on the colt, they set Jesus on it.

Mark 11:1-7Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples and said to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it. If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.’” And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. And some of those standing there said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?” And they told them what Jesus had said, and they let them go. And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and he sat on it.

And again an account in Matt 21:1-7
Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,
“Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
and on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”
The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them.

This doesn't sound like a horse thief to me.

I always thought that there was blatant proof that Jesus had doubted God's will as he hung on the cross.
Mark 15:34 & Matt 27:46
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

What I didn't realize (and neither did my missionary boys) is that this is the beginning of Psalm 22
 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
       Why are you so far from saving me,
       so far from the words of my groaning?  2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
       by night, and am not silent.
 3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
       you are the praise of Israel. 
 4 In you our fathers put their trust;
       they trusted and you delivered them.
 5 They cried to you and were saved;
       in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
 6 But I am a worm and not a man,
       scorned by men and despised by the people.
 7 All who see me mock me;
       they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
 8 "He trusts in the LORD;
       let the LORD rescue him.
       Let him deliver him,
       since he delights in him."
 9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
       you made me trust in you
       even at my mother's breast.
 10 From birth I was cast upon you;
       from my mother's womb you have been my God.
 11 Do not be far from me,
       for trouble is near
       and there is no one to help.
 12 Many bulls surround me;
       strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
 13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
       open their mouths wide against me.
 14 I am poured out like water,
       and all my bones are out of joint.
       My heart has turned to wax;
       it has melted away within me.
 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
       and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
       you lay me in the dust of death.
 16 Dogs have surrounded me;
       a band of evil men has encircled me,
       they have pierced my hands and my feet.
 17 I can count all my bones;
       people stare and gloat over me.
 18 They divide my garments among them
       and cast lots for my clothing.
 19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
       O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
 20 Deliver my life from the sword,
       my precious life from the power of the dogs.
 21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
       save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
 22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
       in the congregation I will praise you.
 23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
       All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
       Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
 24 For he has not despised or disdained
       the suffering of the afflicted one;
       he has not hidden his face from him
       but has listened to his cry for help.
 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
       before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.
 26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
       they who seek the LORD will praise him—
       may your hearts live forever!
 27 All the ends of the earth
       will remember and turn to the LORD,
       and all the families of the nations
       will bow down before him,
 28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
       and he rules over the nations.
 29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
       all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
       those who cannot keep themselves alive.
 30 Posterity will serve him;
       future generations will be told about the Lord.
 31 They will proclaim his righteousness
       to a people yet unborn—
       for he has done it.


Psalm 22 is believed to have been a common part of prayer for Jews of that time. In addition, this was David's prophecy of Jesus' crucification as told in Acts 2:29-31
"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

Don't get me wrong. The Bible was written to support the theory of God and Jesus as the Son of God and only a small percentage of his life was actually written about, but I was kind of impressed to study deeper and discredit my own theory.
My Mormon boys were impressed as well.

6 comments:

Cele said...

I didn't know that about the Psalms. I have long found that many who seek to discredit the standing of Jesus do so on flimsy charges. The ones that drive me crazy are the ones that try to explain to me that God and Jesus are the same being. Hogwash, I don't buy it. If God is so powerful and almighty why would he have to stoop low with smoke, mirrors, and trickery.

I have long held that the Bible is inspired by devotion to the Divine. Not divinely inspired as most believe. If it was divinely written by the hand of God then why was the inclusion of books and the formation of the Bible political mandated by those in power at the time? It is a good history of some early Middle Eastern, I am impressed by how many and how much is spread and repeated in other Holy Books and tradition.

I had a nice little old man, who I enjoyed dropping by and leaving his tracks for years. Until the day that he told me "they" were worried about me. My hackles rose, we had a discussion and the only time he came back was to say he'd not be coming back. I thought that sad. I am always openly kind when I see him, I believe that took him totally by surprise and he found it awkward.

Unknown said...

My argument has always been that if they are one in the same, then God is schizophrenic...

matt said...

JW's have published all this information in our Watchtower magazines. The WT library CDROM is not available to nonmembers, but I have seen older versions on ebay. It is an excellent research tool. You may agree since you have had such a long relationship with JW's.

Unknown said...

I'm not sure that "long relationship" is the right term.
I will say that I admire and respect the knowledge and general devotion to faith that J.W.'s seem to have. I have to say, on the whole, it has been my experience that a higher percentage of both J.W.'s and Mormons are not only strongly active in their churches but practice what they preach, as opposed to many, many other religions I've experienced.
I would be very interested in the literature. I miss getting my Watch Towers.
Thanks for stopping by!!

matt said...

If you want access to audio of the current magazines you can goto jw.org

If you miss the visits then you can goto watchtower.org and push the yes button.

Anyway, nice to meet you.

Unknown said...

"I don't go stand at the back door and smoke... but I finally had to tell them that I like my coffee and am no longer going to let it go cold when they knock on my door. I did not know that it isn't the caffeine they have a problem with, but the tannin. Interesting."

I wouldn't have. I don't stop eating meat in the presence of vegetarians - even if their objections are strong. Just as I respect other peoples' beliefs, I expect them to respect mine - and that includes drinking coffee.

I get it that other people don't want to and part of my respect is not offering it to them, but they should also respect that I do.

Generally I'm not willing to discuss religion with people because I'm an atheist - and most religious people I speak to jump right to the trying to convince me that no, really...God does exist.

No one gets it. ...well, Kevin Smith got it.

Rufus: "He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it."
Bethany: "Having beliefs isn't good?"
Rufus: "I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."
Rufus: "People die for it, people kill for it. The whole of existence is in jeopardy right now, because of the Catholic belief structure, regarding this plenary indulgence bullshit. Bartlteby and Loki, whether they know it or not, are exploiting that belief. And if they're successful, you and me, all of this, ends in a heartbeat. All in a belief."

It's not easy for everyone to just believe something they're told. The children of Christians grow up told about God and Jesus and being read to from the Bible and they believe what their parents tell them. Don't they? I never did. I didn't think that anyone was -lying- to me, I just didn't believe that what they or the priest was saying was true. I've never been able to believe in God even when I've tried - and I tried for a very long time. Everyone else believed in God, why couldn't I?

I grew up eventually and stopped feeling any need to believe or to change that fundamental belief. My ideas about things have changed significantly but that one belief remains the same.

It's not to say that I don't believe in anything at all - though it's pretty boring. I believe that everything is interconnected - but I believe that on a cellular level (which is actually just science). I believe in science and the power of science to change the world.

So I don't have conversations about religion with religious people most of the time not because I'm unwilling to change my beliefs - but because I don't appreciate someone trying to change them - just like I don't appreciate any other attempts to change who I fundamentally am. I'm happy to discuss the Bible on a literary level and its position in history - but just like I don't try to convince religious people that there is no God - I don't like them trying to convince me that there is one.